Ousmane Ndiaye : “Entre Diomaye Faye et Ousmane Sonko, la crise de leadership semble inévitable”
Following the publication of his essay Africa Against Democracy: Myths, Denial, and Peril (Riveneuve, July 2025), Senegalese journalist Ousmane Ndiaye, former Africa editor-in-chief of TV5 Monde, spoke on August 31, 2025, in an interview with Seneweb. He deconstructs the idea of an incompatibility between democracy and Africa, while analyzing the historical, political, and contemporary challenges facing the continent, particularly in Senegal.
You deconstruct the idea that democracy is incompatible with Africa. But I'd like to ask you a slightly provocative question right away: have there been that many truly democratic leaders exercising power in postcolonial Africa?
Not so provocative after all. Of course, there have been very few democratic leaders. The post-independence elites more or less reproduced the anti-democratic colonial system. The colonial state was replaced by the predatory post-colonial state. Competition for power and resources is the most common characteristic of its leaders. However, it is important to note a few remarkable exceptions of democratic construction such as Cape Verde, Mauritius, and Botswana. It is also important to state from the outset that democracy is neither a panacea nor an end in itself, but a necessity. My book begins with this epigraph from Pierre Rosanvallon: "No one possesses the truth of democracy, because it is structurally incomplete." Even if it is never complete or perfect, it guarantees a minimum of rights and freedoms.
You also speak of the "tragedy of historical opponents" like Alpha Condé or Laurent Gbagbo, but we can cite to a lesser extent Abdoulaye Wade, who often betray their democratic ideals once in power. Don't these examples encourage fatalism about the relationship that African politicians have with democracy?
First, be careful not to essentialize or generalize with the expression "African politician." The democratic crisis is beyond a category. It is much more complex. First, it is a movement of global and overall regression, which differs depending on the context, space, and political trajectories. Even between African countries, the trajectories of democratic relativism are not entirely the same.
“It is a fiction to want to build democracies without democrats”
It's more a question of political practice than of men. My conviction is that when you are in the opposition and you don't have democratic leadership of your party, you won't have it once in power. This is one of the keys to understanding what I call the tragedy of historical opponents. Whether it was Gbagbo, Wade, or Condé, they could easily have paraphrased Louis XIV, "the party is me!" Their opposition parties were conceived and built as apparatuses serving a man first. Sometimes formidable tools of conquest but very often crushers of democratic hopes once in power. The space for contradiction vis-à-vis the leader has been almost always impossible. One only has to see, for example, in the history of the PDS, the fate of attempts to criticize Wade's leadership. It was the door. Sometimes, excommunication. It is a fiction to want to build democracies without democrats.
You argue that colonialism interrupted pre-existing democratic practices. What specific examples of these pre-colonial systems would you highlight to inspire a democratic renaissance in Africa today?
The Lebou Republic was proclaimed in 1795 by the insurgents against the Damel of Cayor, Amary N'Goné N'della Coumba. This revolution was documented by Professor Assane Sylla in a monograph. The Lebou Republic effectively abolished the monarchy and was built on "the principle of equality." This principle is reflected, for example, in the organization of its institutions with the Penc, these parliamentary and consultative assemblies. It was a kind of parliamentarism. Power was decentralized. Neither by right nor by blood, but based on the vote.
“The history of democracy is too often reduced, here and elsewhere, to the history of democracy in the West.”
The Lebou Republic disintegrated, clashing with colonial power despite its relative prosperity and democratic functioning. A resistance fighter, the legitimate Serigne Ndakarou was deposed under the famous "divide and rule" policy.
Let's be clear, far be it from me to say that it was a perfect system. On the contrary, inequalities related to social organization certainly survived in the Lebou Republic. But it must be integrated into our readings and analyses of democracy to escape this Western-centric vision of democracy that traps us...
Today, the Lebous maintain the vibrant legacy of this democratic culture. Therefore, this little-known and underestimated part of history must be included in the current debate on democratic construction.
In reality, the history of democracy is too often reduced, here and elsewhere, to the history of democracy in the West. I was struck, in my research, by the lack of work by historians on democratic forms in the pre-colonial period. This is an urgent and important project.
“The speeches of Nathalie Yamb, Kémi Seba and Alain Foka play a driving role in the effort to delegitimize democracy on the continent.”
You demonstrate that notions such as Pan-Africanism and sovereignty are being misused to legitimize authoritarian regimes. Who are the main people responsible for this shift?
I'm not looking for culprits; that's not my goal. Responsibilities are multiple, complex, and intertwined. Rather, it's a process I'm trying to deconstruct, starting with specific cases, of course, like the neo-Pan-Africanists Kémi Séba, Nathalie Yamb, or the journalist Alain Foka, who mobilize and capture a large enough audience to be politically significant.
Their discourses play a driving role in the effort to delegitimize democracy on the continent. They have skillfully reappropriated the Pan-African discourse and put it at the service of new military dictatorships such as those in Mali, Burkina Faso, and Niger. Paradoxically, they mobilize Pan-Africanism, born of a desire for freedom, to put it at the service of freedom-killing dictatorships. This is a misappropriation of Pan-Africanism.
Even if, it is important to emphasize, the democratic renunciation of Pan-Africanism does not date from today. Sékou Touré in Guinea, Nkwamé Nkrumah in Ghana or Thomas Sankara established dictatorships. The iconification and mythification of these revolutionary figures have made them a blind spot of reflection. We must simply celebrate them! However, imperialism alone cannot explain the failure of these Pan-Africanist attempts. Far from ideological dogmatism, an inventory is necessary.
“Getting out of these patterns of influence is crucial. Being pro this or that is always the beginning of conscious or unconscious conditioning.”
We have the impression that the Western democratic model, with the tolerance it implies for sexual minorities, is losing ground in Africa, and that African elites are increasingly favoring illiberal models like Putin's Russia, Erdogan's Turkey, or Xi's China. A form of supposedly enlightened despotism that you evoke in the critical chapter on Paul Kagame. Isn't Africa's destiny fundamentally in what is now commonly called the global south?
I am not a theorist. I start from my field as a reporter in touch with reality to think and analyze. I am therefore wary of these concepts thought from above, fashionable, that we throw around everywhere. Even if I find it interesting, I still cannot precisely grasp the concept of the Global South. Then, the modes of domination, notably economic, currently in use with the countries of the North, can be at work with the so-called countries of the Global South like China, India or Brazil for example. The destiny of Africa is Africa, I would say!
Breaking out of these patterns of influence is crucial. Being pro-this or that is always the beginning of conscious or unconscious conditioning.
“Africa is no longer a priority for France, or for Europe for that matter. You only have to look at this form of indifference and inaction regarding the massacres in Sudan or in the eastern DRC.”
In your book, you discuss France-Africa relations. You describe French interventions, such as in Ivory Coast or Libya, as "dubious wars of interference." But to what extent have Emmanuel Macron's personality and political choices, compared to those of his predecessors, exacerbated France's loss of influence in Africa?
It's a long, inevitable cycle. This pattern of influence entered an advanced phase of decomposition well before President Macron's arrival. Macron's term coincides with the height of this groundswell of aspirations for a new relationship with France.
To his credit, unlike his predecessors who were in denial or taboo, Macron attempted to tackle essential issues such as the CFA franc, the military presence, the restitution of cultural property with the Sarr/Savoy report, France's responsibility for the Tutsi genocide in Rwanda, and colonial crimes with the Stora and Ramondy commissions on Algeria and Cameroon. He also tried, with historian Achille Mbembé, to redefine the relationship with Africa. But, without ever quite following through. After the announcements, conservatism, resistance, and the status quo often prevailed.
Renewal will likely not take place under his leadership. Moreover, with the wars in Ukraine and Gaza, Africa has taken a back seat during his current second term. It is no longer a priority for France, or for Europe, for that matter. One only has to look at this form of indifference and inaction regarding the massacres in Sudan or in the eastern DRC.
“Despite the voluntarism of the discourse, I am struck by the slowness, even the incapacity, of PASTEF in action and transformation.”
Let's talk about Senegal, which is often seen as a democratic model. How do you assess the country's progress under the leadership of Pastef, and what lessons can you draw from it for the future?
I am unable to assess the future, given the current fragile and uncertain context. Now I see that the country is in an even more serious crisis than we thought. Both the opposition and the government, at least, agree on this point. The difference is over responsibilities. This debate, which is going around in circles, is somehow holding the Senegalese hostage because, ultimately, the priority remains the transformation of the country.
For Pastef, discovering the reality of power is proving difficult. For example, despite the voluntarism of the discourse, I am struck by the slowness, even the inability, in action and transformation. Prime Minister Ousmane Sonko himself, in a surprising speech calling the President of the Republic, his leader, to order, admitted this and warned against failure.
So, whatever its supporters say, this two-headed executive is a problem. In a hyper-presidentialist regime like Senegal's, we find ourselves in a situation where political legitimacy is held by the Prime Minister. He is the political leader of the majority and the president. And the promised reform to transfer more power to the Prime Minister is slow to come despite the promises. Under these conditions, a leadership crisis seems inevitable given the divergent points of view and approaches that will inevitably arise on issues and subjects.
“We find in Ousmane Sonko’s speech elements of fashionable democratic relativism”
And Ousmane Sonko, Pastef's tutelary figure. Do you see him as a true democrat, or does his pan-Africanist discourse risk falling into the democratic relativism that you criticize?
I smile because you don't think to ask me the question about Diomaye Faye, who was elected President of the Republic. It's interesting because it says a lot about the duality of power. But anyway...
Ousmane Sonko, with Pastef, seized power through universal suffrage in a clear and undeniable manner. His power is therefore the expression of the popular will. In this sense, there is no doubt that he is a democrat. But, as I said, democracy is not only elections but a political practice, particularly in governance.
“Ousmane Sonko is following in the footsteps of his African leaders, who claim Paul Kagame as a model”
On the one hand, Ousmane Sonko has been able to remobilize and repoliticize a youth that had completely turned away from politics. He has broken with the traditional political party. For example, in the modalities of resource mobilization, Sonko breaks with the usual pattern of the leader who finances, by mobilizing the base.
On the other hand, Sonko is the leader of a hybrid, heterogeneous party that includes defectors from the Macky Sall regime as well as populist and degagiste fringes. It contains all the divisions with their contradictions. Even if, confusedly, sovereignty seems to emerge as a political line, it seems to me that in reality it is the figure of Ousmane Sonko that serves as a point of convergence. He is a sacralized, mythologized figure, with all that the pitfalls of political messianism imply.
On the democratic issue specifically, the contradictions between Pastef and its leader are stark. Ousmane Sonko's discourse reflects elements of fashionable democratic relativism. He also criticized President Diomaye Faye for a certain weakness in the face of the "crisis of authority," as he put it. This was clearly a call for a tougher stance by the regime. Ousmane Sonko follows in the footsteps of his African leaders, who claim Paul Kagame as a model. His first official visit abroad was to Rwanda. Senegal's challenge, which is completely different from Rwanda's, is to build development on the foundations of democratic achievements.
I also note that, despite having come to power democratically in March 2024, Pastef is not in solidarity with, for example, the dissolved parties in Burkina Faso, Mali, and Niger. On the contrary, a Pastef delegation led by Dr. Dialo Diop even went to openly support their executioners. We also find in Pastef this populist discourse that wrongly opposes democracy and development. Now the question: can it win internally?
Senegal-France relations have evolved with the departure of 350 French soldiers in July and Bassirou Diomaye Faye's visits to Paris in August 2025, followed by Ousmane Sonko's trips. How would you describe this new dynamic, between assertive sovereignty and a desire for economic and security cooperation?
The military bases were anachronistic. They were one of the last avatars of colonization that could not last. Wade had begun to close them before retracting. It was about time. On a symbolic level, its significance is strong. Now, the fundamental question, beyond the abundant declarations and speeches on sovereignty, is what relationship to reinvent with the former colonial power, and beyond that with the rest of the world. It is not just a question of an official visit or signing an agreement with this or that country, but of defining a comprehensive and coherent foreign policy, with a forward-looking approach, based on our priorities, objectives, and needs. This cannot be built through reaction alone. What is Senegal's foreign policy? I am still waiting for the translation of the stated sovereignty into a doctrine or foreign policy document with a precise vision, an agenda, and means. The rest often comes down to posturing and communication issues.
Since your book's release, how has it been received by the public and intellectuals in France and Africa, particularly in Senegal? Are you planning an official presentation ceremony in your country to debate its ideas, and if so, how do you plan to structure it to maximize its impact on local democratic discourse?
This book engages in debate. Deliberately without compromise. And I see that it is being discussed, disputed, contested, and that delights me! Enrichment is not being right but the exchange that carries the contradiction. I hope to have the opportunity soon to do this in the flesh at home in Senegal.
*Africa Against Democracy: Myths, Denial, and Peril, (Riveneuve, July 2025) https://www.riveneuve.com/catalogue/lafrique-contre-la-democratie-mythes-deni-et-peril/
Commentaires (21)
N importe quoi
À quoi bon mettre son portrait craché sur la couverture du livre ?
Le mercenariat ne prospérera plus!!!
Les nouveaux vecteurs de la france afrique , ou est passe son aine assane diop anti sonko ? Diomaye est lucide et bien eduque , certes c'est lui le president legitime , tout ca il le doit a sonko , l'homme qui a fait elire des maires , des deputes , cerise sur le gateau , un president de la république .there is only one sonko , sonko forever .
Excellente lecture des enjeux démocratiques ! Ousmane Ndiaye désarçonne les mythes et désacralise les «vaches sacrées ». On a besoin de cette lucidité en ce moment singulier où le souverain verbeux embrouille les esprits
Si ce n’était pas les Noirs, nombreux comme les fourmis, braves comme les lions, je battrais la France et je mettrai Paris dans une bouteille en moins d’une demie heure ». Cette phrase qu’Adolph Hitler aurait prononcée, témoigne à plus d’un titre le rôle du conditionnel.
Arrêtez cette masturbation intelectuelle car la mayonnaise ne prend pas.
Diomaye et Sonko n'ont pas d'autre choix que de travailler ensemble.
Meme si on aime pas ce qui se passe en ce moment nous devons tous aller ensenble pour sortir le pays de la mort certaine qui l'attend.
Foutaise avec des pseudos intellectuel Bla Bla à longueur de journée. C'est vrai il y a des lenteurs dans la réalisation des objectifs fixés. Mais vouloir opposer sonko et diomaye ce dernier n'est pas dupe je crois pas à ce point.
Vs ne pouvez pas ns les foutre la paix un peu.. Tt le temps Diomaye/ Sonko en a pas finir.. Putain laisser les travailler
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Togueul foffou rëk : je ne vais pas acheter ton bouquin parce que tu n'as rien compris. On a 1 nouveau modèle qui n'existe pratiquement nulle part au monde : 1 PM qui a nommé le Prési et qui a le parti qui gouverne. Les 2 sont parfaitement conscients des enjeux et comptent bien faire avancer le Pays u rune voie nouvelle malgré les oiseaux de mauvais augure et les comploteurs de tous acabits, rongés par la haine et pressés de les voir échouer
Encore,un mercenaire de la plume..
En tout cas si Le pastef veut rester au pouvoir jusqu’à 2050 et Diomay rester en politique il faut que en 2029 il se représente pas et laisse Sonko se présenter et faire deux mandats après il reviendra pour deux mandats pour terminer la vision 2050 mais s’il essaye de se représenter il va perdre et ça sera fini pour lui en politique.
Avec Diomaye sans Sonko en 2029 il est probable qu'il gagne les élections mais Sonko candidat c'est la mort de PASTEF. Les sénégalais ont finalement découvert l'homme. Peut -être les moutons vont voter sonko.
Je comprends pourquoi Cheikh Ahmadou Kara Mbacké appelle nos intellectuels au Réalisme africain, depuis longtemps. Il invite aussi à un nouveau concept appelé "humanocratie", qui doit remplacer la démocratie.
La crise est visible même en regardant leur position pendant la marche sur le tapis rouge.
Le PM a l'orgueil de marcher derrière le Président.
Mais Dieu a fait ce qu'il a à faire il faut l'accepter.
Personne n'est dupe des ambitions cachées de Sonko le gueulard, c'est bien sûr lui qui a permis à PASTEF de gouverner en mars 2024 mais faute de pouvoir accéder à la présidence ( casseroles Covid et sa masseuse préférée) il a nommé Faye à la présidence, ça me fait penser au duo russe Poutine et Medvedev.
C'est pour la premiere fois depuis belle lurette que j'ai pu croiser un article aussi bien articulé, en pensée et en recherche!
À Seneweb: Merci pour la publication et il faut continuer sur cette lancée. C'est pas trop populaire mais très instructif et intellectuellement stimulant.
Bonne chance et bonne route Mr Ousmane Ndiaye!
Tous les experts en rien vont ouvrir leurs bouches pour des analyses plates, juste pour se faire connaitre. Sonko est une source de popularite, de revenu pour tous les opportunistes ( experts en rien et en tout, coniqueurs, actibostes).
1795 ?
Bof . Il travaille pour ses maitres f........
Il s 'inspire d' un schema d analyse du 20 eme siecle de la Franceafrique.
Ca ne surprend personne.
Vous serez déçus !!!!
Pastef, au lieu de fustiger par le mépris de la personne, contre argumentez! Faites comme lui, cela vous profitera vous et au reste du monde !
Mais, j'ai l'impression que vous savez qu'il a raison et c'est déplaisant...
Au niveau de l'observatoire national des Investissements (ONI), il y a la cousine de Macky Sall qui s'appelle Gnilane Ndiaye et qui assure toujours les fonctions de secrétaire général avec un salaire de 2,5 millions par mois. Non seulement la dame qui a été placée à ce poste par népotisme ne connaît rien mais elle passe tout son temps à dénigrer, insulter, saboter et calomnier le PR Diomaye Faye, le PM Ousmane Sonko et tout le PASTEF. Monsieur Ibrahima Fall, président de l'ONI est en train de trahir le sacrifice des combattants en maintenant cette dame à son poste.
On a combattu depuis mars 2021 avec acharnement contre le tyran Macky,mais force est de constater que le régime actuel est pire.Macky au moins volait de l’argent mais rendait riches son entourage et tous ceux qui étaient avec lui pendant les moments les plus difficiles.Par contre Sonko part à Medina Baye avec des mallettes d’argent alors le khalif a toujours refusé de recevoir la coalition Yewi Askanwi,Sonko reçoit Hamed Khalifa Niass qui encourageait Macky à tuer son peuple.Diomaye part a Tivaoune ou le Khalifa avait déjà surnommé Amadou Ba président,avant cela il était avec Mountakha Mbacke durant le magal.El Malick Ndiaye,lui part à Thienaba tous ils partent avec les fonds politiques.Au même moment les anciens détenus meurent un par un par manque de prise en charge.Ils détournent les deniers publics sans aider leur militants,alors que dans chaque quartier les militants du Pastef sont les plus pauvres des chômeurs endurcis qui ont tous sacrifié pour le projet.Sonko est la preuve vivante que les promesses électorales n’engagent que ceux qui y croient ..Manipulateur,qu’îl est,il est en train de faire croire à ses moutons que tout le problème vient de la justice et de Diomaye..Pendant que les jeunes meurent tous les jours les arrivistes au pouvoir ne pensent qu’à se marier et faire des enfants.Kou deh thi politique y’a perte
C est triste mais beaucoup d intervenants ont l insulte à la bouche faute d arguments. Ça renseigne du niveau de médiocrité du débat à galsen.Diomaye semble plus flexible et plus ouvert aux conseils. Les slogans ne suffisent pas à définir un cap pour le pays. L ignorance et l entêtement de son premier ministre est manifeste.
De Juan Perón en Argentine à Berlusconi en Italie, en passant par des dirigeants plus récents (AES, PASTEF), le schéma est similaire : les populistes accèdent au pouvoir grâce à des appels émotionnels, mais avec le temps, leurs régimes font face à des crises économiques, à une décadence institutionnelle ou à des scandales de corruption, ce qui conduit à leur effondrement ou à un retour de bâton.
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